Jack, I knew every inch of that area. Between Firebase 29 Ben Het and Hill 875 was Indian Country. The express lanes of the Ho Chi Minh trail came right through there. There was an exit ramp just north of Ben Het and another just south of Hill 875. That one was the back door to the Plei Trap. One of my first missions was pulling a LRRP team out by Hill 875. The first CA I was in involved the 101st ABN in that God awful place. That place was bad news from the start of the Battle of Dak To until the end of the war. From Feb.1968 till Dec.1968 I think we lost six ships,and a good dozen shoot to hell. I hate to say it but flying SOG was actually a break. Bob remembers that tour we pulled after SOG at Dak To. They had him and another wrench and a TI there just to put us back together so we could make it back to Holloway. The guys in the sheet metal shop hated me. They missed many a brew at the club because of my tailboom. Old "Penis" There was a pilot with balls. He would flying to the gates of hell and then stick his tongue out at Satan himself and then laugh. I flew with him a couple of times. Great pilot. The only good thing about a CA with ARVIN's was the fact the bad guys would be no where near where we would put them in. The only time they did make contact was if they were lost and than only long enough to drop their weapons and run like hell. Some times I think we should have been on the NVA's side. At least they were committed to what they were doing. Hey Bob, Who is Bud Williams? You got to remember that I don't work well under pressure and I don't play well with others.