Camp Holloway Discussion Forum Archive 03 - 03/01/01 to 12/31/03

Duh!!!!

Flight,

I found this interesting, maybe they should try Hunter Killer or scout missions next. How about if they try it in a Huey. Its not there fault that they don't have the right tool for the job assigned.

Tom Gator 851.

I guess they found out that trolling for bad guys can be dangerous to your
health -- jcp

Back in the Fight, but More Cautiously

By Mary Beth Sheridan
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, April 5, 2003; Page A22

U.S. ARMY TACTICAL ASSEMBLY AREA VICKSBURG, Iraq, April 4 -- Eleven days
after his AH-64D Apache Longbow gunship was shredded by gunfire, U.S. Army
pilot Paul Dean returned to the skies over Iraq today. But this was a far
different mission than the first deep attack of the war, which ended with
one helicopter going down and about 30 others limping back to base.

Dean, a chief warrant officer 4, and several other Apache pilots flew close
air support today for U.S. ground troops entering the southern Iraqi city of
Samawah. Dean's Apache knocked out three Iraqi antiaircraft guns and didn't
suffer a scratch.

"It was night and day, between the first mission and this," Dean, 37, of
Chiefland, Fla., said at this makeshift U.S. base in central Iraq.

After a spell of bad weather and hasty repairs, many of the high-tech
Apaches attached to the Army's 11th Aviation Regiment are once again in the
thick of war. But they are flying more cautious missions than the
long-distance ones envisioned for the world's most advanced attack
helicopters.

In recent days, the Apache helicopters have been working closely with U.S.
ground troops, darting out beyond the lines to perform reconnaissance and
fire at tanks and small groups of Iraqi soldiers. The helicopters have
carried out few of the regiment's signature operations: strikes deep into
enemy territory against armor and artillery.

Apache gunships were designed as Cold War weapons that would blow up Soviet
tanks with precision-guided missiles from miles away. The helicopters won
fame by firing among the first shots of the 1991 Persian Gulf War, targeting
two early-warning radar installations in Iraq. They later pummeled fleeing
Iraqi armored vehicles.

In the current conflict, the Army has deployed a new, more advanced Apache,
the AH-64D, known as the Longbow. It can detect threats from about five
miles away and shoot "fire and forget" missiles -- radar-guided Hellfires
that home in on their targets without requiring the pilot to linger
overhead.

But for all their sophistication, the $25 million helicopters suffered heavy
damage on March 24, when Iraqis in suburban neighborhoods near the central
city of Karbala opened fire with small arms and rocket-propelled grenades as
the Apaches flew to attack Republican Guard armor. One of the U.S.
helicopters crashed and the Iraqis captured its two-man crew.

"They took a page out of 'Black Hawk Down,' " said Maj. John Lindsay of
Ardsley, N.Y., referring to the book and film about a 1993 raid in
Mogadishu, Somalia, in which 18 U.S. soldiers died when two Black Hawk
helicopters were shot down by lightly armed Somali militiamen.

Officers here say that the Apaches' role has been limited by poor weather as
well. Another factor is that U.S. troops haven't confronted many Iraqi tanks
and armored vehicles in combat. Military officials are puzzling over why:
Has the Iraqi army withdrawn its armor to Baghdad? Are its tanks so poorly
maintained that they're unable to go out to face the Americans? Or are the
crews balking at a fight?

Whatever the answer, Apache pilots providing cover for ground troops headed
toward Baghdad say they see few signs of massed armor. U.S. tanks, Air Force
jets and ground artillery have destroyed some of the vehicles, and others
have been dispersed to smaller cities, pilots say.

When the helicopters do find tanks, it's often a turkey shoot. Few Iraqis
"are willing to stand and fight," said Greg Inman, 41, an Army pilot from
Omaha, who joined with another helicopter to blast seven tanks they
discovered this week near an industrial complex in Musayyib, south of
Baghdad. The tanks appeared to them to have been recently abandoned.

The crews "run away from the vehicles and the weapons, and shoot when we're
leaving," Inman said, who came under scattered fire as he left the scene.
Inman flies older-model, AH-64A Apaches for the 2nd Squadron of the 6th
Cavalry, a unit of the 11th Regiment.

Other times, the pilots are gathering intelligence for forces on the ground.
"They are using us as eyes and ears, and as a deterrent force," said Capt.
Andrew Tapscott, 33, a pilot from the Fort Lincoln neighborhood in Northeast
Washington who flies Apache Longbows for another regiment unit, the 6th
Squadron of the 6th Cavalry. "This is a ground commander's war."

Tapscott, whose helicopter was shot up in the harrowing fight on March 24,
said he doesn't mind assignments such as the one he had Thursday, scouting
for Iraqi forces in the vicinity of 3rd Infantry Division units moving north
past Karbala. "We're all serving a role here," said Tapscott, who described
the mission as uneventful.

Several Apache pilots said they were glad to be flying in conjunction with
ground troops instead of far ahead of them, because the presence of soldiers
discourages people in cities from firing at the low-flying helicopters. "Now
the guy we're engaging out there doesn't have to just worry about me, but
the [American] guys on the ground," said Dean, who flies with another
regiment unit, the 1st Battalion of the 227 Cavalry.

Dean and several other pilots were dispatched Friday morning to help troops
from the 82nd Airborne Division who were seizing several bridges in Samawah,
about 150 miles south of Baghdad.

Like his fellow pilots, Dean has become more cautious since the earlier
fight, coordinating more closely with other Apaches and moving constantly
rather than hovering. The Apaches are carrying extra rockets, which are
often more useful than the heavy Hellfire missiles in close, urban fights.

"We were just more aware," said Dean's copilot, Capt. J.B. Worley, 29, of
Corsicana, Tex.

Just after dawn, Dean's helicopter and another Apache Longbow spotted four
Iraqi S-60 antiaircraft guns on dirt roads between homes in a date
palm-shrouded area of Samawah. "They were armed and ready to go," but there
was no sign of the gunners, said Dean. The helicopters destroyed the
artillery pieces with rockets and guns. As they left, the pilots heard what
could have been minor small-arms fire.

Worley said he and his pilot were pleased at their success, but their
satisfaction was tempered by thoughts of their two colleagues who were shot
down last month and are POWs. "We're glad we're back safe," he said, "but we
know our buddies are still out there."