Could be Bob, after I lost 409 to another CE I got a new bird and never really followed it much after that, or I have blocked it out. I didn't even know it went down. My short shaft failure occurred in August of 68, maintenance forgot to put grease in the darn thing! Only reason I remember it is cause I got an award for knocking a bird colonel on his ass after he tried to exit the bird on autorotation. One of my few smiley faces! Brother Tom